The Truth Without Repercussions

Jody Sokolower: How would you introduce yourself to CLES members reading this interview?

Sunny Brown: I'm Sunny Brown, and I love organized chaos. I love education. I love equity. And you can't do one without the other. I call it organized chaos because sometimes you’ve got to tap dance around things, but you still have to make your way to the end.

I’m here in Atlanta, a Georgia Peach for the moment. I'm originally from Ohio. I moved to North Carolina, moved to Brooklyn, New York, and then into Atlanta. I’m a middle school social studies teacher by day, and I teach college courses at night at our local HBCUs [historically Black colleges and universities] and at Freedom University.

JS: What is Freedom University?

SB: FU comes out of the SNCC [Student Nonviolence Coordinating Committee] Southern freedom school tradition. We provide college courses for undocumented students, and work with them to get into private colleges here in Georgia. Georgia has this fun little law that does not allow undocumented students to attend any public college or university. So they have to try for these private institutions that cost more money, which pushes accessibility even further away. The Freedom University team has been doing amazing work with immigrant students for 20 years; I am grateful to be along for the ride and learn so much from them each day.

JS: So taking the SNCC and Black Panther Party liberation schools to the next level! What’s happening in Atlanta currently in terms of the attacks on children and their families?

SB: What is occurring now is devastatingly. Where I teach, at the end of the school year we had a moving up ceremony for our fifth graders, and someone called ICE. Parents actually ran out and left their kids in the middle of the ceremony. Seeing the kids crying and the parents take off running—it was horrible.

JS: Did ICE arrest people that day?

SB: Not that day. And there is also some confusion about if it was actually ICE. As in other places, they were all masked and jumping out of unmarked cars. I know a Tennessee legislator presented a bill there to say you can’t have a mask on when you are making an arrests. I hope every state passes a bill like that, because we have no idea if it was ICE or copycats, we have no idea. But a fear that would make me leave my child at their school, run home and lock my door, and hope somebody drops that child back home, that's too much. It's just too much. So we’re trying to work with not only with our young people, but also our families, making sure that we are there for them and helping them understand that whatever we can do, we will do.

Fighting these attacks—it’s all of our responsibility. I tell people all the time that I don't have time to add something else to my plate. However, I am showing up at our school board meetings. I am participating, getting on boards. People who understand the need for education access and equity, we need to be in positions of power. Everyone reading this: Run for office if you can, do something, so we can make sure that we're moving the needle the right way.

JS: In addition to the attacks on immigrant youth and their families, there has been terrible repression against trans youth. And I'm wondering what the situation is for trans kids in Georgia and in Atlanta specifically.

SB: Atlanta is supportive of the queer community, but Atlanta is one city in the entire state. And when you look at it like that, it's a really small part. In Atlanta, I see more acceptance and support. I also notice that, particularly in the large nonprofit spaces that I'm in, I don't see a lot of queer people on boards. I don't see them in executive suites. So while we say it's safe, is it really safe? When I look at my school board, I should be able to see folks who look like kids they are serving. Same thing with the mayor’s office. So while schools try to be supportive, I’m not seeing the representation in leadership I’d like to see in a metropolis like Atlanta.

JS: Are you seeing connections being made between protection for immigrant youth and protection for queer youth?

SB: I'm seeing more equity spaces, rather than organizing around specific issues, maybe because we've figured out that we have to work together. But that can sometimes lead us to disregard what the individual needs. There are things that I need as a Black woman and mother that might be different than something my best friend needs as a queer person.

We need to all pull together to fight something big, like Cop City, but we also need to say, “Let's not forget about our HBCUs. Let's not forget about our migrant folks. Let's not forget about our Haitian community. Let's not forget about our trans kids and ensuring that they are safe.” I'm hoping that that's where we can go. And, honestly, that is on us as organizers to ensure that we're seeing people individually as well as collectively.

JS: How are Georgia schools dealing with the question of sanctuary for immigrant students?

SB: It’s district dependent. Some districts are like, No, you can't step foot past this front office. We're not letting you in. And then some districts interpret it differently. They think it’s fine to let them in. Sanctuary schools are not, of course, explicitly defined in Georgia law.

But one thing I’ve learned—and I was a homeschool mom for 10 years— at the end of the day most people don't want the government to interfere with their children, no matter who they are. So once you have people who are not immigrants saying, “Wait a minute, I don't want the government involved with this at all,” those voices add to the voices of those directly oppressed. ICE thought they would just be able to do whatever they want, and then they realized, no, it's not just People of Color who are saying that you can't come in. There are some rural white folks who are saying, “No way. You are not going in to talk to my kid.” There’s no specific law, but I'm seeing more districts taking a stance against ICE invasions. And people are applauding it. People are like, “Yeah, you might get my vote next time, too.”

JS: What kinds of organizing are you seeing about defending the curriculum, trying to make sure that Black history can get taught? That the current situation in Palestine can be discussed?

SB: Honestly, I'm really worried for our traditional public schools. Unfortunately, their curriculum comes from the state and they have to roll through it. I am blessed to work at a public charter school. We do receive some public funds, but it’s not that much. That means that I have a some autonomy with the curriculum.

I think the Black Panther party had it absolutely correct when they started their liberation schools. In the meantime, we sneak in everything we can. Maybe I can’t teach a unit on Reconstruction, but I’m amplifying Black voices. Then, when students think of great literary writers, it's not just Charles Dickens that they're thinking about. They're thinking about Maya Angelou and WEB Du Bois. During my unit on the Middle East, we started every lesson hearing from a Palestinian poet. It wasn't always about the genocide and devastation in Gaza. Sometimes it was just: This is their voice and it’s beautiful.

But, at the end of the day, if we want the full history, we're gonna have to take control of these schools. If that looks like a liberation school, if that looks like homeschooling, whatever it might look like, in order for the truth to be heard we have to be in a space where we can say it without repercussions.

JS: Looking toward the beginning of the school year, how are you planning to help your kids make sense of what's happening? What are you thinking about in the first few weeks of school, on both a curricular and social emotional level?

SB: When you come into my classroom, there is a Free Palestine flag. And then there's another flag that says Black Lives Matter. And then, in the middle, there's the Black Panther Party flag. I am overwhelmingly blessed that I am at a school that honors my advocacy. At my employment interview, when they asked do you have any questions for us, I said, “Will lose my job if I get arrested for protesting?” That's my favorite question.

So in those first four weeks of school, we do something called Unit Zero, where we set the expectations and the culture for our class. I say, “We are developing and cultivating the culture of our classroom. You all are stakeholders here, and we have to work together. You have just as much, if not more voice than I do, because there's more of you than there is of me. So let's talk about how we can work together.”

And I try to get them to see how the world should work, how even though most of us voted for something, if it's not good for a specific person, is it really good for the community? We talk about what it looks like when you have the numbers, but it still might not be the right thing to do.

Every year, at some point, there is a protest that someone from my social studies class leads, there's some rule that my students decide is inequitable, and they get it changed. I show them how to go through the process: Hey, let's write a letter first. All right, they didn't respond to the letter. Let's demand a meeting. We're gonna go up there, we're gonna sit down. I tell their parents, “I will teach your kids how to use their voices, because I want them to be able to speak up later.”

I'm actually excited to get back to the school because with all of this that we have seen, especially in these last three months, I want us to be able to come together and say, “This is not right. We should use our voices for this.” I never force them on any particular subject, but I give them the opportunity and then I support them from the background. But again, I'm in a space that’s very different from some of my colleagues at traditional schools where that's not welcomed. Those schools are oppressive places for teachers and students.

JS: Can you give me an example of something that kids decided to protest?

SB: My first year, I was teaching fifth grade social studies at a school with a uniform policy. One of the parents had what they thought was a great fundraising idea: If the kids brought in $5 on Friday, they could wear street clothes that day. I understood what the parents were doing. They thought, if it’s important to the kids, they can find $5.

We had one student in our class who was unhoused, and the other kids understood what that meant in terms of the family finances. They said, “We don't think it's fair that she has to pay to dress like us.”

So I said, “Let’s look in the student handbook. Let's see what the rule says. And then let's write a nice email.” So first they wrote an email. They got a response. The principal said, “ I'll come talk to you about it.”

In Georgia, in 5th grade social studies, you're learning about government and how to pass a law. So I told them: “This is the law. We need to figure out how to get it amended.” They came up with different amendments that would make the rule more equitable. They presented their ideas to the principal and the rest of the administrative team. The administrators gave feedback on each idea. The principal told my students, “I love this. I will come back and give you my response.”

A week went by and the students asked me, “When is she going to come back?”

“I don't know,” I said. Y”ou guys did everything right. What do you think the next step is?”

“We should strike.”

“Okay, let's see what that looks like.” They brought tambourines to school to make noise and they created posters. In the middle of the day, they walked out of the classroom yelling “Strike, strike, strike!” Just disrupted the whole school day. They marched around the hallways inside the school. Kids in other classes had no idea what's going on. They started coming out and just striking with them because they're like, “Hey, pandemonium, we're coming, too!”

They all sat down in front of the front office. They were singing, they locked their arms. I was in the back videoing, and I was so proud. Our principal came out. She said, “I'm so sorry. I got caught up with everything. You're right. You all can have free dress-down Fridays. Amazing job!”

And from then on, every Friday has been free dress-down Friday. But I want them to remember that there's a process to it. You don't have to jump right to protesting, but you can start with a letter explaining what’s wrong. I say: “That’s your receipt that shows I sent this, I presented this, and you did not respond in a timely manner. So now I have the right to take the next step.”

JS: That’s a great lesson for all of us—have a goal, be strategic, use our voices, and always be ready to take the next step! Thanks so much, Sunny.